Black_Fur wrote:

LoupGarouAngel wrote:

I'm both,but never was a RPer until I came here.I think it helps my wolf side to write out the actions of something a wolf would do,and communicate with a "pack" really does help me stay sane.I do goof off a lot,but it keeps everything well balanced!

You don't have to justify anything dear, you're having fun and that's what matters. Besides, I don't think you goof off much in the more "serious sections". Me it's the first time that role play. I could not help myself, you guys seemed to have so much fun so I had to join you in all the playing My life is so dull and serious so I need a place to have fun with others .

Much fun is had!

I hadn't done it before I came here....you have to admit it's hard to resist...

Oh okay I see. Thanks for clearing that out. Yeah in these cases it's not fun. There are severe nut cases out there dragging the innocent ones in their madness.

WolfVanZandt wrote:

Aye, when someone says, "I turn into a Werewolf and pounce on such-and-such" they're describing what their fictional self is doing in cyberspace and it's obvious to everyone that they're role playing. That's not a problem.

The problem is when they describe something as though it is happening to them in real life.

Another example - I've known of more than one situation where a person appears on a forum and provide an extensive personal history where they're the last survivor of a tribe that had been wiped out by vampires and they stick to their guns that it's absolutely true. If that's true, then there really is bad blood between vampires and werewolves. That puts me in a rather difficult situation since I have some very close vampire friends. But when you check out their story - not only is there no historical evidence of this bad blood, but there's no evidence in their area that anyone has died in the circumstances mentioned or even disappeared.

What they are doing is creating bad blood that isn't there. That's not good.

This is a fun site - but confusing dialog - not knowing where each other stands - doesn't cause it to be funner.

I think I know who you're talking about. At least one of them. Man that guy was out there! I told myself : "It's because of these weirdos that we are not taken seriously." I too have a vampire friend, he's a great guy and I really like him. But I think that some people just need to create a paranormal existence in their heads, believing themselves to be mythical creatures because they lack so much in their lives. They feel the need to be special. They make up these weird stories and believe in them to fill up the void. I pitty them in a way...

WolfVanZandt wrote:

I actually try to "be myself" on-line but my personality must be somewhat different because I've had several people say things like, "I really thought you were a jerk reading your posts but now that I know you in person, I like you." I suspect that the problem is that a lot of empathic language is lost over the Internet.

Heh, sidetrack - I like you on here, does that mean I'm going to think you're a jerk if we ever catch up?

Heh, I don't know Montana. I guess it's possible. I have a tendency f probing on the Internet to see if people have really thought out their position. I never mind if a person has different ideas and opinions than me. I've learned a lot of things from other people. What I do mind is for people to bindly state an opinion they have no basis for as though it were fact and as though they expect everyone else to share that opinion. If I sense that, I'l go into my Socrates mode almost automaticallyand start testing them. Some people love to be challenged. Some hate it. I suspect that the people that think I'm a jerk on line are the ones that hate it. If I were talking in person, I would do the same thing but my tone of voice and mannerisms would convey that I'm really interested and not trying to trap them and that I honestly care about it. That doesn't really come through very well over the Web.

I agree with you Black_Fur. Statistically speaking, it would be truely amazing if everyone that said they were a Werewolf on this site (or any other site frequented by Therians) were actually a Werewolf. But any particular individual - it would be impossible for me to determne whether they were a Werewolf or not (now, in real life, that would be different). But even in real life, even if I know that a person is not a Werewolf but they say they are, I don't confront them with it. I hope that their own personal life journey will lead them to understand themselves better. I am glad to help them explore themselves (I'm a vocational evaluator - that's what I do for a living), but it's really something they have to find out for themselves.

On the other hand, I do want them to understand when they can. It's not good for a person to try t be something they essentially are not. So a nonTherian that thinks they're a Werewolf is going to have probems because of it; and a Werewolf that wants to be a nonTherian is going to have serious problems with that. I really believe that people are potentially most happy when they are living what they are.

There re two groups of Therians that seem to me to be tying to reject their THeriansism in rather covert ways - I think they're related because they overlap so much. They're distinguished by their opinions.

One says, "Everyone is a Therian but some people simply express it more.

Now there is an honest version of this - the belief that evryone is potentially a THerian but that we do something to "trigger" it off. But the majority of people who say it (and I know some to be bona fide Therians) add "we're no different than any other human." THere's only two ways to be a Therian and maintain that position (they have to completely discount experiences they have had). Either they think that they're delusional. Or they reject their Therianism to the point that it's completely (or almost completely) suppressed.

The others are the hyperobjectivists - the folks that say that everything has to be objective and that they reject anything subjective. Human beings are designed to be subjective. Their brains are programmed to process information subjectively, there are a lot of reasons for that but it would make it's own thread. But that goes double for Therians. Where as Humans' are "souped up" objectively, animals are optimize to be intuitive and instinctual. Therians are a median between the two. We can operate optimally in both modes and it's a beneficial distinctive. It is an advantage that we have and something that we can offer the world. But if we reject subjectivism, then we're, to a large extent, rejecting Therianism. It feels like hyperobjectists are rejecting their animal nature and are, therefore, trying to escape their Therian nature. 

But one thing that happens is that Therians who are trying to avoid their own Therian nature will reject the same in others. So you'll see a lot of them nixing other's exprssion of Therianism.

But then there are those who, as you said, seem to think that, if other's life experiences as Therians don't line up with theirs, they can't be Therians. That's a problem, too.

So it's a complex issue. I guess the answer for the individual is to be confident enough in theirself (or to grow to that point), that an assault on their Theriansism doesn't bother them (after all, what can anybody else do about me being a Therians?) and they pretty much ignore it.

Mind you, I do advocate for the Therian community and will dialog wih groups that are confused and honestly interested as to the existence and nature of THerians, but that's not on a personal level.

WVZ, you do help us alot. You seem to know alot about therianthropy, your opinions and theories are very logical, that's why I wanted to interview YOU when I was moderating the therian section in that other forum. I was sick of reading paranormal explanations, nothing was clear. I'm an open person and I do believe in alot of things but you know, I'm always trying to find a biological or scientific reason first. If I find nothing there, then I go in more outrageous explanations. But tell me, what is a vocational educator exactly? Some sort of a therapist? Teacher? Mentor? If you don't mind me asking....

True it is not good to be something you're not. It was weird because the more I tried to repress my animal side, the more "fierce" I got! That's just one example. It goes for anyone. You have to be yourself and accept who you are. Then you're more able to accept others. But I was never the therian who would say "You are not this, you are not that". Like you I believe the person has to find it out himself or herself. Others saying that you are not what you say you are should not affect you. You just have to ask yourself if you did not mix therianthropy with something else.

I tend to be a hyperobjectivist, I tend to be only. Because now I do accept my therian side but it took me time tho. I was sure that I was ill...Now I'm just stuck with the "Why" and "How"

True BW, there is not much serious studies about the matter with experiments and such. It would help to reduce statements like: "Oh, I'm a werewolf. I killed some people at the full moon...." (seriously I've read things like that!). But there would be some individuals who would say that scientists don't know what they are talking about. I mean look at some witch doctors who will charge you 100$ to drink vegetable juice saying that demons attacked your liver and that doctors hide the truth etc...but for now, we can only make theories based on personal experiences. Thank god we have our friend WVZ here, he has the knack for clearing things out!

And thank you for your compliment BW!

A vocational evaluator tests people (usually with disabilities) to help them explore their vocational interests (what kind of jobs they would enjoy, what they look for in a job, etc.), strengths (things they can use to "sell themselves" in a job interview), and weaknesses (things that would interfere with them competing for a job in their area of interest), and then suggest stragegies that would optimize their ability to et the job they want. I', also over a work adjustmentclass that helps people improve the specific skills they need to get and keep the job they want.

I'm not against paranormal expanations of Therianism, but if a person holds such a opnion, how are they going to verify that it is a fact instead of a figment of ther imagination? That doesn't mean that it's not a fact, it just means that they cn't really know whether it's a fact or not. Despite the fact that I'm a Christian fundamentalist, I don't believe in blind faih. If you have no basis for a belief, your belief s going to be very weak regardless of how loudly you proclaim it.

On the other hand, I do belief that he normal and the paranormal are flipsides of the same coin. THere is a paranormal explanation to go with any normal explanation and the connection between the two would not necessarily be obvious at all. I'm a scientst, a Christian fundamentalist, and a shaman and I'm quite convinced of many of my normal and paranormal beliefs (which means that I would need to see evidence countering what I already know before I even think about chanmging my position on certain beliefs.) and they are consistent with each other (or I would have problems with them).

The Therian community (on-line) as founded in 1993, We're only 14 years old as a people. That isn't much time to attract the academic community's attention. On the other hand, I know of several (meaning morethan 5 but probably less than 10) serious, academic studies going on in respect to teh Therian Community. Also, there is information in past studies of other things (especially clinical lycanthropy) that may well be related to us. In other words, there is information out there. We just have to figure out where it all fits together.

And there are quite a few knowledgeable Therians out ere. For instance, my good friend and pagan counterpart Coyote Osborne is very erudite. The lady who calls herself Savage is an established herpetologist and is not only doing her own academic research but is helping other researchers study the community. And there'e several others.

Frankly, I'm more intersted that the Therian Community develop and thrive than I am that we particularly understand ourselves fully. I'm more interested in the relationships we develop among ourselves and with the rest of e world.

Oh okay WVZ, we have them too. It figures...vocational=vocation gees I'm slow sometimes That's a great occupation.

I agree that normal and paranormal go together. Like my grandfather used to say: "I hate the word "paranormal", if it happens then it's normal!". But many (like myself) don't always see the connection between the two. Indeed, you need solid arguments to defend your beliefs. Like I believe in ghosts and my mother does not. She says that when you die, there is nothing after. She did have solid arguments and theories and apparitions (she believes in apparitions but we don't get along when it comes to determine what they are). Even if she had great arguments, still I believe that there is something after death. I shared my theories and she understood but she still thinks that there's nothing after death. We end up saying "Well, who knows really?".

But still, even if I accept paranormal explanations in some situations, in other cases I tell myself: "Well, it's an unsolved mystery." . I know so much people that immediatly jump on a paranormal explanation, completely neglecting scientific facts. I am not against paranormal. What troubles me are those who completely spit on science. But that's another debate .

1993? Wow! I did not know that! I thought it was pretty recent! Herpetologist?....never heard that one before... Got a couple of websites to suggest?

Oh I know BW....some are just....many out there that are just...spooky!

God....way to make me think too much for one day.

I respect all opinions,my household contains 2 Catholics,1 agnostic,1 atheist(sp?) and me,the one whi is spiritual but still has not decided on a religion yet.I myself have had a few to many experiences that were more then just a random occurence,so I believe in something after this life.

Siver's smart. He hangs around to see what's considered appropriate before he gets into the mix.

Although I believe in the paranormal, I believe that most of what people consider paranormal (including ghosts) is normal. It's things that people don't consider paranormal that I often see as paranormal (I'm strange that way).

If anybody will be able to study the paranormal it will be Therians. Not all Therians experience the paranormal but many if not most of us are weird magnets". Many of us are spontaneous and natural shamans who spend quite a good bit of time (if you can call it that  ) in Dreamtime. Many of us have made some pretty provocative observations while there. The big problem there is that you can't talk much about it because language fails there and you can only communicate it to others that have experienced it.

O.o

1993 is recent!

A herpetologist is a scientist who studies reptiles. Savage wrestles gators (well actually she probably babies them to death.)

Websites? About what?

The Q&A for the original Therian site - AHWW - is still circulating. I don't know who's managing it now. I suggest that you do a Websearch on AHWW. Wikipedia has articles on Therian, Theranthropy, Lycanthropy, Werewolf, and Were. I try to make my own website informative - a link is in my profile. The premier information site for the Therian community is www.werelist.com and there are plenty of other links  from there and Savage is a moderator there.

Ever seen little black wisps running back and forth through your house or in other places?
Can something please tell me what those are?
Maybe I'm crazy....